Tuesday, December 23, 2008


Rick Warren-enjoys "picking and choosing" verses from the bible (Thinks gays can't marry because the bible says so in Leviticus--yet ignores verses saying you should kill yourself if you are a glutton)  

Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony
Proverbs 23:2

"Christians have been cherry picking the bible for centuries" -Christopher Hitchens

This is a very hot topic now because Barney Frank and others are disappointed in Obama for having Rick Warren do the inaugural prayer.    

Rick Warren is a morbidly obese pastor of a "mega church" in Lake Forest who wrote an incredibly popular leaflet called "The purpose driven life"    

Rick Warren continues to ignore his own bible because he persists in being an out of control glutton.  

The Gospels do not have Jesus saying one word about "gay marriage" and gay lifestyle...(he did however say that it is good sometimes for men to cut off their own genitalia)  Jesus never married and the guy who made up the religion Paul hated marriage.  

References to gayness come in leviticus alonside other archaic laws that are all ignored like "you should not wear a shirt made out of polyester and cotton blend"

So why does Rick Warren ignore the bible when it talks about Gluttony, but not when it talks about homsexuality?  

Any ideas?


Brett said...

Riddle me this, riddle me that... why do you cherry pick such easy targets? Take on Van Til or Plantiga if you want to impress me. Warren... come on, that's like taking candy from a baby.

But kudos to you, you got to get two of your favorite rants in on one post - over eating and Christian-bashing - a two-fer.

See this is why I don't like liberals - they are hate speech filled, narrow-minded bigots who seek to destroy anyone who disagrees with them.


Garrett said...

Yes indeed, two of my favorites...I haven't done a post on religion since October 20th....and I did one last month on McDonalds....

You didn't answer the question in my post....I'll rephrase.....

There are two things the bible says you shouldn't do

1. Be a homosexual
2. Be a glutton

Why does Rick Warren ignore the second one? Is one thing worse than another?

Brett said...

Why would I answer for Rick Warren? That is a question you would have to ask him.

My only point was that you like easy targets, that's all. And Warren, IMO, is an easy target. But by all means, have to it, if it makes you happy. :)


Garrett said...

Rick Warren has chosen to be who he is and is the most influential christian in the country. Of course he is an easy target.....He has the freedom to be a glutton and I would not go after him if it wasn't for his virulent support of Prop 8 and his public statements regarding "homosexual behaviors"

He makes himself an easy target because the bible says that gluttony is a sin and does not state that is it any less of a sin then homosexuality.

How would Rick Warren like it if a biblical based initiative restricting those with a BMI index of 30 or more prohibited people from being covered by health insurance.

That is why our country is not a theocracy.

Brett said...

Okay, fair enough - you're right, Warren has put himself out in the headlines and he is fair game. Whether or not he is the text book definition of a glutton or not, I am not sure, but he is definitely over weight. So have at it.

However, I do have a few questions. Was your post simply meant to poke fun at Warren or to say something regarding Prop 8 more generally? If it was to say something regarding Prop 8 more generally, I am not sure I buy your logic (which is a nice way of saying I don't buy it at all). You seem to be saying:

1) Rick Warren is opposed to homosexual marriage.
2) Rick Warren is a inconsistent hypocrite.
3) Homosexual marriage should be allowed.

If that is the case I propose the following solution. Find an inconsistent hypocrite who supports homosexual marriage and voila, we are back at prohibiting it. Of course this is an ad hominen attack and fallacious reasoning to begin with so we could go back and forth for a long time just for poops and giggles (see I cleaned it up for your junior readers).

Garrett said...

I am pointing out what I perceive as an absurdity. Rick Warren will not let you be a member of his church if you are a practicing homosexual. The reason is because in the book of Leviticus there is a verse that says it is wrong to be a homosexual.

There are numerous other things it says in the bible we should not do...wear a shirt made of two different kinds of thread is one of many...another is gluttony....it doesn't say in the bible that same sex relations is any worse than gluttony, yet Rick Warren allows any and all gluttons to be members of his church, they do not have to repent of their gluttony.

Why not?

P.S. Regarding prop 8 this is not the central reason I am against it because of Warren, but I have yet to hear a counteragrument from the Evangelical or Mormon pro 8 mafia

Brett said...

Again, I will leave Rick Warren to answer that question for Saddle Back.

Regarding the shirt with two fabrics issue, that is another discussion. There was a typological purpose to that prohibition. In other words that was not a moral command in the sense of wearing a blended shirt is morally wrong, it was a command of ceremonial separateness - like clean and unclean animals, certain cleansing rituals and so on that were intended for a time to teach Israel what it means to be separate and holy. When that which is pointed to by a type comes, the type passes away. So that would not be a good example to keep using. You may not like that, but it is how the Bible accounts for itself.

Gluttony is a sin and is something that we need to be concerned about. So I have no problem there - though I would not classify Warren's overweight issue as true gluttony if you really wanted to get into that issue. But you are right for pointing out the problem within the church of cherry picking acceptable sins and those that are unacceptable. Again, I can't agree with you that Warren is truly guilty of gluttony - he is able to function, to work, etc. He is overweight and I would have concerns about his health, but not gluttony in its truest sense. For what its worth.

Garrett said...

And what about not having sex with a woman while she is on her period? Can you tell me the verse that says "disregard only for the ancient hebrews" for that one, and please tell me the "disregard only for the ancient hebrews" for the two cloths one.

And remember not one iota will pass from the law until all is accomplished.


Brett said...

Of course I can't give you a verse that says that any more than you can point to a sentence in Hamlet that says 'Hamlet contemplated suicide.' That is now how the Bible works. Communication does not have to take place the way you want it to for it to take place. It's like the person who gives some one else a certain kind of look, then when pushed says, 'I didn't say anything.' Well of course you did, you just said it non-verbally.

The Bible does not have verses that undo every ceremonial law and so on. However, that does not mean it isn't extremely clear on the point. The Bible treats the Law as a whole and states explicitly that it had a temporary purpose and that we are not under it. Your understanding of Matthew 5:18 is incorrect, and so you continue to try to use it in a way never intended.

If you are seriously asking, I would be happy to give you a brief sketch of what the Bible is about, what it is doing, and how it gets there. But, if you are just looking to create a test in a certain way that you know won't be met in that way, then have fun.

By the way have you given the money you stole from the bank back yet? :)

Baptist_Mike_in_Utah said...

Rick Warren does not represent Christianity. He may represent a very liberal sect of followers who live a live of disregard for scripture. But he has done more bad for Christianity than good. But this is America, the land of lip service christians in the first place.

There are people who do not cherry pick scripture, but those guys are not going to make it in the media.

But what about scientists who cherry pick to come up this their ideas. try to make micro-evolution into macro-evolution or any other kind that has never taken place. They ignore true science and use absolute fiction to create an idea.