Thursday, May 8, 2008

Gay People

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable.  They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Leviticus 20:13

Charming verse right?  

Cousin Dean told me that he enjoyed my "controversial" blog and Mr. Dole2Obama suggested that I write about Gay marriage.  Well I thought I would write about my overall views on homosexuality.    I used to think that it was "wrong" to be gay, and I was repulsed by gayness in general.  I thought that A.I.D.S. was perhaps God's punishment because I was taught that in my church and from some of my christian leaders and friends that I looked up to.   Once I shed the mind virus, I had to reassess my views.  So here they are.  Gay people are born gay and there is nothing they can do to change that fact.  Instead of making them feel guilty about their natural state, why not encourage them and love them?  Not make them feel guilty and stigmatized.  They are not hurting anyone.  If a person in born straight, they cannot be turned gay, according to all our best and most current science.  Homosexuals are in the minority and they are not going to influence your children and make them gay despite what James Dobson says.  I know of multiple kids that I grew up with who are gay.  One in particular grew up in a very loving "christian" home.  He is gay and that is fine.  They are adults now and they deserve the best possible route to their own happiness.   I wish them all the best.  I have a coworker now who is openly gay, and I like the guy a lot.  He is kind and funny, and I am glad that he is on my sales team.  

I still have feelings of repulsion of course for the "act" itself, because it is contrary to the way I am wired.  And I am sometimes repelled by ostentatious displays.  I am glad that we are evolving towards more acceptance.  Atheists, and homosexuals remain two of the most despised groups in America, so perhaps I feel a certain kinship to them.   Not in a gay way of course (:

P.S.  I am for Gay Marriage!

Update: Gay Marriage is now legal in California.  Only a matter of time before we see religious kooks trying to get a constitutional marriage amendment passed.



I tend to agree with you as far as a straight person cannot be born straight and then turn gay. I don't feel most people decide to be gay. We have a friend who has a brother and a sister who are gay and he and his other sister are straight. Go figure. I worked with alot of gay people in the airlines, mostly guys. They were the funniest, hard working and lovable people to work with. Unfortunately alot of gay flight attendants that I worked with died from aids. It was when aids first surfaced and there wasn't alot of meds to slow the virus down. I would say 20 guys I knew died from aids. It was very sad. I personally do not have anything against gay people. However I do have two areas that bother me. The first one is gays getting married. I am firmly against it. The second is the children of gay couples. I worry about how these kids are going to cope when they go to school with two men or two women and introduce them as mom and dad when they are of the same sex. I don't think our society is at the point where this is acceptable. But I know kids that are facing this challenge and can't imagine how difficult it must be. Love ya, Susan

P.S. Love these blogs. Really gets one thinking.

dole2obama said...

At Torrance High School we have openly gay students and a gay-straight alliance club. The level of acceptance among the students towards homosexuals is remarkable. We all know gay people, just as we all know blacks and Mexicans, and just "knowing" these people is not a logical reason for being for/against anything. The real question is why are you opposed to gay marriage? Is this because the church or society has social conditioned you to believe that this marriage would be a sin? I got news for you folks, everyone you know who is on their second marriage is living in sin. The bible teaches us that in God's eyes all sin is equal, a sin is a sin, therefore homosexuality is just as bad as divorcing your wife. Yet the pastors cannot preach about this because more than half of their congregation would be forced to leave. Therefore we must examine why we oppose gay marriage. Do you oppose gay marriage because marriage is a "sacred" institution? Again, if it is so sacred than why is there no stigma in society when half of all marriages fail? Many people now openly talk about their "starter" marriage. I think that society is moving in a direction towards gay marriage just as it took slow steps to grant women the right to vote. If you believe that people are born gay, as I do, why would you punish someone who has no control over their sexual orientation? On a political note, you gotta hand it to Rove, he got 3 million more voters to turnout in 2004 due by putting the gay marriage on the ballot.

Garrett said...

Hearing from one side that homosexuals are bad people and sinners, and that what they are is wrong.....and then "knowing" some yourself, and learning that they actually are not bad people is in fact a logical reason to be for or against them. And it is one of the key reasons why I changed my mind.

As far of being MODERATELY against gay "marriage" I just shot that out without much thought, but I have in fact been thinking about it more since I wrote it, and being for civil unions is a good step to being for marriage. And it is true that 1/2 of all people certainly don't treat it as a "sacred" union. It is a public expression for a commitment that two people make together based on love.

I love the adultery example and of course this is the classic, it also says in leviticus that you should not shave your beard, cook a goat in mothers milk etc......Also it says in Matthew that if you even look at a woman with lust in your heart, then you have committed adultery. And violated one of the ten comandments.

So why was I moderately against? Remnants of Xenophobia I guess, but you know what I'll go ahead and change my mind, I am now for Gay Marriage! The Post is now changed, as I through the old one down the "memory hole"

dole2obama said...

Just by "knowing" someone is not logical because you are basing your thoughts/feelings/asumptions on an issue based on your limited sample of the ten to twenty people out of the millions of gay people.

Garrett said...

Twenty years ago we would have already been trading blows by now (:

Logic means "reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity"

I was told something was "bad/wrong/sin" and thus so were the people.

I attempted to validate that and found in my limited sample that in general these people are not bad/wrong/sinners...because they do not seek to cause harm.

Therefore it is a logical reason for a point of view.

dole2obama said...

Oh no, Garrett opened the dictionary! Yes we shall use "strict principles of validity." Using your definition if the ten gay people you met were not good people than you would be valid in your assessment that gays are bad people and should not get married? Don't think so tiger. The point of this is that people use the sympathy card of knowing someone different than themselves to back up their own opinions, such as, "some of my best friends are black" This gives people emotional cover to unleash their own bias or fears without being seen as a bitter or mean person.

Garrett said...

If the opposite were true and I found a majority that fit what I was told I would be more likely to form an opinion based on what I observe. But I wouldn't take that as the only evidence. Happy? Stay tuned for another post on the subject of "a group of people" and I'll look forward to your comments. Until then.....

Grandma Dee said...

Well, I love how everyone has stated how they feel about gay people and gay marriage. It is really cool to share these thoughts.

Over my lifetime, I have known quite a number of gay people, some of them have exchanged vows recently or many years ago.

One couple included a woman who was in med school and the other one of the first medical online researchers. They were as different as night and day and so much fun to spend time with, as friends and through our work. I remember that they went to the Med School Formal with one in a beautiful dress and the other wearing a tuxedo. At the time, we talked about their differences and I told them that I found it a bit new for me to get accustomed to. that was back in 1993 and I assume that they are still together.

One of my best friends from 1972 was a fellow I worked with, Richard, that was the most fun person to be with. We laughed long and hard and had many great times together. He worked at the railroad where my Dad and I worked. We included him in our family holidays. I was blown away that back in 1973 my parents were cool enough (even though incredibly conservative) to accept him for the great person he was. I became aware that just like heterosexual people don't talk about their personal sexual experiences, neither did I have to get into his experiences. I accepted him for who he was. He later was one of the first persons to die of AIDS in 1982 at UCLA Medical Center. My mom went to see him and had to get all gowned up and wear a mask and gloves so that he could not "contaminate" her. There was so much fear at that time about AIDS.

Anyway, something that I learned about being gay had to do with genetic makeup. When you are conceived, you exhibit male and female traits and identification through your genes. A child can be born as a boy but have genetic predisposition to be female. I remember a claim made during an in vitro fertilization. The parents had been told they were having a girl, but when the baby was born, he had male genitalia. They were suing for having been told they were having a girl, and then ending up with a boy. Very sad situation. Very likely too that the child may exhibit female characteristics and preferences. I, too, believe very strongly that gay people are born that way. As a result, I believe that they should be able to love and have a civil union and the benefits that derive from that. Certainly, it is difficult for the family and future children to deal with, but how can we deny them that opportunity for a meaningful relationship.

Garrett and Matt, you both have opened my eyes to the arguments in favor of gay marriage. I love your insights. Keep these controversial issues coming.

And, by the way, I love Ellen DeGeneris and her program. I think she has done much to advance a positive attitude toward gay people and relationships. It took a lot of courage for her to come out. I think she made her point and now she is reticent about her relationship and just lives her life according to her preference. Mostly right now, I am not watching her show as she supports Hillary and I definitely do NOT. I prefer to not be subjected to her views in favor of Hillary. And, she is entitled to her own opinion.

Enough said,