"Hi I have a PHD in Sociology, I need your money"
Barack Obama has said something that has made me giddy to hear, because he is 100 percent correct. He asked what passages should guide public policy... "Folks haven't read their bible, the bible condones slavery and says eating shellfish is an abomination" He also attacks the hypocrisy of some politicians by pointing out Jesus "Sermon on the Mount" Genius!!!! Thank you Barack and please keep this up. If he would just come out as a secular humanist which I think in his heart of hearts he is. (I also think McCain feels the same way)
Dobson also had the audacity to say that Obama is distorting the bible, and "dragging biblical understanding through the gutter" Dobson has a PHD in Sociology from USC..he has no formal theological training whatsoever. Dobson makes the classic argument when faced with troublesome verses... "that only applied for the time" and no longer applies. By that logic neither do the ten comandments apply because they were also mosaic law that only applied to the hebrews.
And then he goes after Barack's expertise calling his interpetation of the constitution, "A fruitcake understanding of the constitution" he said this of course because Barack supports "Roe v Wade" Hey James, if abortion is murder do you support the death penalty for mothers who choose to abort their fetuses? Anyways Con Law is something Barack knows a little about Dobson should know better than to make such attacks.
My wish is that people of Barack's stature will continue to hammer away at the Christian right and their leader Dobson....McCain needs to stay away from him as well, as he once rightly called him "an agent of intolerance" but since he has unfortunately backtracked to my great dismay. Dobson for the record has said that he will vote for neither of them....good James why don't you tell your sheep to cast a write in vote for Huckabee, then Barack will win in a cakewalk.....and I hope Baracks first action is a clampdown on the tax exempt status of religion!!
7 comments:
Garrett,
I agree with a lot of what you said. I am not in the "religeous right", I am just left of Amish.
I am acutually considering a vote for Barak. I would vote for a thrid party candidate, but everyone keeps telling me that is a vote for Obama, So I might as well eliminate the middle man and just do it.
Agreement,-
1- Yes emilinate the tax free status for churches.
2- Dobson is typical social Christian, I have not time for his nonsense.
3- I also have no time for religion in politics, or the fake (say what the christians want, and dont act) attitude we currently have. Just leave it out all together.
4- By the way I am anti killing in all areas, We will get into that on the 10 Commandments sometime. Feel free to give the Dukakis argument, everyone always does.
5- I also think they should remove tithes and offering from being something you can write off on taxes. Truly giving to God should not be something we keep track of and rewarded for here. "treasures in heaven" etc.
Now i do disagree on your beliefs about the word of God. But that is how faith works out. You put faith in other things than I do and sometimes we have faith in the same things.
Big guy-
This is your best post yet! I love how a guy with a PHD in Soc calls a law professor ideas "fruitcake" ideas. Fruitcake ideas? Really? Does anyone take this clown seriously? Can't wait to mail Dobson a fruitcake after Obama wins in LANDSLIDE!
hmmm....
I am confused Garrett.
#1 - While you know that I have no sympathies for Dobson, I am confused how you get from him to abolishing tax emption for churches. I thought you supported separation of church and state. You do know that our country was founded upon the idea of no taxation without representation right? We have no right to tax any entity that does not get a vote. This is why our founding fathers taxed people and not corporations, churches, etc. A removal of tax free status for churches is a call to give churches a vote... something I didn't think you endorsed.
#2 - Thank you for your point about experts and interpretation. I believe my credentials qualify me as an expert in the Bible and I am telling that Obama is wrong. Try to respond, but I will refer you to your post - you are a poli-sci major. Stick to poli-sci. :)
Love ya man.
Hi Brett, I hope you enjoyed your Double Double
As to point number 1. Churches are automatically given tax exempt status because the following two criteria are assumed A. They are a charitable organization B. They operate without a profit motive.
I argue that churches must demonstrate A and B to a reasonable conclusion before being offered this status. The problem is, in america evangelicalism is a HUGE BUSINESS and many pastors take advantage of this and rake in gigantic portions of money see Pastor Hagee, Robert Shuller, Joel Osteen, Etc. People that give their money to churches feel that they are doing a good thing, giving money to "God" But in reality, they are giving their money to a church to be done with as the pastor pleases, he could buy a hi def projector, or a new porsche boxter like pastor bryon from RHCC.
The pastors all preach the same sermon, the way to prosperity is giving me more of your money! I argue that the money would be made better use of by donating to charities that cure diseases like cancer and heart disease.
And in many churches (like my own) the charitable giving is minimal. Also the wall of seperation is torn down the second a pastor makes a comment about who god thinks you should vote for. It was torn down when that lunatic told us that we should get our arms broken to stop planned parenthood when we were in high school remember? He was pushing a political agenda...so I do agree with it in theory but in practice the lines are blurred.
As to your second point yes of course you have a point about me not saying anything about the bible since I don't have a theology degree. My point is that if I were someone like James Dobson who's life it was to tell people who god wants you to vote for, and how god wants us to raise our kids, I would have mulitiple theological degrees. I am not Dobson, I am doing this blog for fun and to make my opinions known. If I did devote my entire life to something I would be more likely to get a degree in it.
Obama's point is that public policy can't be dictated by scipture. Because scipture contains some notions that we recoil from, such as advocating slavery, (something Jesus does in Luke as you well know) anyways you told me you agreed that politics should be kept out of religion, and that is what Obama was talking about.
Great post my OCaD friend,
It's funny that growing up we were taught that Dobson was a respectable man and instructed to read his books! This guys flown way over the cuckoo's nest, but I guess there's always a sucker out the to pay for his fancy suits.
He's a perfect example of Dole2Obamas post on fear tactics.
Garrett,
I am learning a little more about your new found faith in some of your comments. I cannot wait to be able to get into it more with you. It seems that much of what you now believe is linked more to your experiences with the worlds secular denominational christianity and not biblical christianity.
All of the churches I am associated with and fellowship have pastors that are servants of the the churches they pastor and has no more authority to do things than the newest member does. The Pastor can not spend a dime without church approval (meaning a vote of all members). The pastor may recommend something to the church, but if the church votes no, than that is that. The discussion is over.
Not one pastor I know preaches prosperity from giving as you mentioned. That is not biblical merit unless taken our of context. People who preach that kind of message are ignorant of the bible and their world view is stuck in an American Vacuum. Church members in Mongilai, Africa etc have the same promises as the ones in the USA. They tend to give more (as a %) of what they have to God than those in the US. Yet they live in poverty, in tents. A preacher must have a consistant biblical view. Gods Word is not divided by cultural differnces and circumstances. What is true here must be true over there, or it is not of God, bur of man.
By the way I have no degree from a man made seminary or theological institute. They were created for power by churches that were interested in Theocratic governments in order to control what is taught. I am just an ungodly buzzard ordained by a local church and student of Gods word. I have no credential behind my name. So I understand if my thoughts are not welcomed among the learned.
By the way, Garrett, I do applaud your willingness to talk about this stuff and again I appreciate the spririt in which you present your side. Many in your camp seem to not be able to get a word our without yelling.
Mike Faulkner
Good post, Garrett! Love the spirited discussion. Mike the Baptist, you may not have a theological degree, but you have Bible smarts and as good a reason as any to post your thoughts. We seem to put so much emphasis on degrees and training. Certainly, it takes a degree of intelligence and commitment to get the degrees, but self-teaching and informative reading and experience are valuable teachers. I am currently reading "The Audacity of Hope" by Barack Obama. In it he refers to the former Senator from West Virginia Robert C. Byrd who spent 47 years in the Senate. When he became senator he did not have a college degree but drew from his experience with life's challenges. He later went on to 10 years of night school to get his law school degree. He had wisdom, experience, challenges and determination: knowledge the old-fashioned way. Glad to see that all of you approach your wisdom in your own ways.
Thanks for sharing (and to all of you!), Denise, Garrett's step-mom
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